Blog - Casa in Colle

Zoom meeting

Zoom meeting with Gino, Alex and Setfano (no Andrea). Very difficult communication via Zoom. Connection rubbish. Language difficulties exacerbated.

The main topic was the heating solution. The quote for just the heating was in excess of €25,000. We discussed looking into the option of using air source heat pumps for both heating and cooling in order to remove the need for radiators, boiler and GPL tank. We do not anticipate being in the house during the winter that much (at least for now). Also, if we get permission for photovoltaic panels, we could run the heating at a low level for free when the house is empty (good for keeping the damp out).

I asked Gino to get a quote for this alternative option from the same contractor so that we could see what level of saving could be made.

Gino had come through with three quotes against the updated computo metrico (only Michele missing) and I had translated and compiled them into a spreadsheet for easy comparison.

Gino informed me that one of the builders (KR Costruzioni) had done work for Riccardo Martinucci.

We also had quite a lot of discussion around the elements for assistance to plumber, electrician, etc. I was not and could not get clear about how these could be sensibly estimated (piece of string stuff).

As the Zoom meeting was about to terminate, we agreed that it would be best if I sent questions by email rather than attempt another Zoom meeting.

Riccardo

After the meeting I had a call with Riccardo to get his opinion on KR. He rated them highly and would happily use them again. The other interesting thing he brought up was that, when he used KR, he had to get involved coordinating between them and the electician and plumber he had selected. The boss of KR had told him that it would have worked better if he had come to them for everything as they would have then been able to coordinate everything.

Follow up email

Thanks for the meeting today.
The Zoom connection was not great, but I think the meeting was worth having.

Questions about the quote from Italtermo

The item “D’OPERA” relates to the supply of 20 radiators at EUR380 per radiator.
There is also an item “FORNITURA DEI RADIATORI IN ALLUMINIO ISEO BIANCO H 600 ELEMENTI” which also appears to be related to supply of radiators.
Can you help me understand what these two things are?

The quote for the heating system is very high so we are wondering if there is a more cost effective solution.
For example, could the cooling system be modified so that it can use a heat pump to blow hot air in the winter and cold in the summer?
Perhaps that could be supplemented with electric heaters and one or two wood burners.
I understand that gas is probably cheaper to run than electricity, but we should get some benefit from the solar panels even in the winter.

Questions about the quotes from the builders

The point I was trying to get clear was the reliability of the quotes for the items relating to assistance to other trades (items 24 to 29).
Have the builders calculated all the assistance needed and included reliable and fixed costs?
Or have they made some kind of educated guess and included an indicative cost that could go up or down?

Is the IVA for all the work in the quotes from the builders 10%?

Is it a sensible option to give the internal work to one builder and the external work to another?

Documents received

Gino sent through:

The updated computo metrico
The plans for the GPL heating solution
A quote for plumbing, heating and cooling

As we were now in London gearing up for our move into our new flat, we told him we would not respond straight away.

In fact, we didn’t get back to him until 2 January when we confirmed the content of the computo metrico and requested a Zoom meeting to discuss the quote. I also requested a full set of quotes from builders, electricians and plumbers in advance of that meeting so that we could have a complete picture (apart from the pool).

Geometra meeting

We went to a meeting at Gino’s office to discuss the updates to the computo metrico and a bunch of solution designs they had finally managed to put together.

This was our last meeting with Gino before returning to London to move into our new home there.

A couple of days before this meeting, Gino had sent the computo metrico to four builders including Michele. They would now need the updated version including the changes for the false wall.

Gino indicated that work could start in February or March next year and we told him that we would return as soon as the Schengen rules permitted (mid February) to start packing the house up ready for an early March start. We’re used to being told something could rather than will happen and then being disappointed. Fingers crossed this time!

During the meeting, we felt like we needed to make it clear that Gino is our geometra (not Andrea). Martin might have done that a bit brutally, but we think the message probably got through. If we pick Michele as our builder, it would not go well if he had to deal with Andrea on a regular basis and there are those red flags raised about Andrea too. From our point of view, Andrea seems more enthusiastic than considered which is of some concern. We would not be happy for Gino to delegate our project to Andrea.

We never saw Andrea again

Windows ordered

Today we ordered 26 double glazed windows from the local falegname (carpenter). That’s the one Domenico took us to visit some time ago. We’ve seen an example of what he produces at the house of Enrique and Paola. Nice.

The ground floor windows and all the bedroom windows will have scuri (internal shutters) for privacy and keeping the light out.

We have put off any decision about external shutters and internal doors till a later date.

Geometra meeting

We asked for a meeting as everything seemed to have gone quiet since the contractors came to visit. We had also received notification that the comune wanted a totally in-ground pool so as not to spoil the look of the hill. This seemed crazy to us as the existing pool is not visible from the street. We had also received a quote from an electrician that seemed way off the mark (e.g. TV points in every room, an intercom system) .

Gino said he’d bring one of the contractors that he had recently sent the computo metrico to.

We also sent this agenda in advance to focus everyone’s attention.

Meeting with the contractors

We started off with the building contractor, electrician and plumber going through the planned works and giving proper consideration as to how that should be done (finally). As there would be a fair bit of electric trunking and central heating piping to get around the house, a false wall across the front of the first and second floor was proposed so that substantial tracks in the fabric of the walls could be avoided. This seemed like a sensible approach to us.

As a result, Gino would need to send out an updated computo metrico to the four contractors.

Meeting with Gino and his guys

Once the contractors had left, we addressed the topics in our agenda. The main points to come out were:

A new proposal for the pool would need to be submitted. We suggested keeping it in the same position, but building the terrace out so that it extended in front of the proposed visible portion of pool wall. Our main reason for wanting to take this approach is not to lose any of the paved area (so that it would continue to be large enough for sun loungers. They seemed to think this was a reasonable approach.
Once we started digging into the quotes from the electrician, it turned out they were made without reference to our requirements and was simply an example quote for a house of the appoximate size of ours. Pretty disrurbing really.

We arranged a follow up meeting for 7 November.

Fallout

After the meeting, Martin had a discussion about the “example quotes” with Riccardo and as a result we sent the following to Gino on the following Monday:

I have to say that we found the meeting last week very unsettling. In particular, the fact that the quotes we were sent for the electrical installation and the photovoltaic solution were just off the shelf examples was worrying for us.

Our friend tells us that to get accurate quotes we need technical drawings with the location and specification of each element and the routes of the pipes and cables. From that will follow accurate technico computo so we can get reliable quotes.

We have yet to see the technical details / drawings of

the photovoltaic project
the heating project
the cooling project
the electrical project
the strengthening of the floor of the living room on the second floor
the opening of the new door in the kitchen

We have seen a plan of the proposed locations for the photovoltaic cells for the permission, but no details of the analysis of how many panels are required and how much storage.

Similarly, we have seen a diagram of an LPG tank, but no assessment of the boiler or the number, size and location of radiators that we require.

The same applies to the air conditioning. We have yet to see the technical assessment of the size and quantity of the units to adequately cool the rooms.

Assuming all these assessments exist, please send them through to us. We need to see them to be reassured that any future quotes relate to our requirements. If they do not exist, please take all steps necessary to ensure that they and the relevant technical drawings are available and sent to us before our meeting on 7th November.

Finally, please confirm the time and location of that meeting and let us know what dates and times this week you will be visiting with the electrician, plumber, etc.

The intention was to light a fire under Gino.

Bathroom refurb

On 19 September, the first bit of work on the house started. Michele Gigli is a builder in the village who was recommended and introduced to us by David and Carol. We had arranged for him to start earlier in the year, but he had to cry off as there was an overrun on another job of his. In spite of the fact that we would have a house full of guests, we were happy for him to start. It meant an 8am start to the day for us all, but it was very exciting that something was finally happening and a price worth paying.

The work he was here to do was a refurbishment of the second floor bathroom – one of the few things we could do without needing permission from the comune. We had been desperate to have a decent second bathroom and a proper shower.

We had already been to the tile suppliers that Michele recommended and had bought the only suitable floor and wall tiles they had in stock. We’d also ordered the shower, sink, vanity unit etc from Leroy Merlin to be delivered after Michele’s start date. We had decided to keep the same layout and to reuse the toilet and bidet. Every Italian home has to have at least one bidet and this is the bathroom we decided would keep one. The shower would be bigger and we also wanted a larger hot water heater to allow for more back to back showers.

This is the bathroom we were replacing. The tiles at the base of the shower were cracked and we had decided not to shower there until we had a new bathroom.

The pictures below are the result of the first half day’s work removing the old bathroom furniture.

Later that day, Michele sent this picture of the base of the shower. Given that we had not used this shower since we moved in, that water must have been lying there for a very long time. If we had showered up there, goodness knows what might have happened.

Michele told us the shower base would need to be raised as the existing water outlet was above floor level. A couple of days later, however, he proudly revealed that he’d managed to lower the outlet pipe (which was buried in the wall between the bathroom and our future living room). The pictures he took were a little surprising, but this is how they accomodate plumbing in old houses like ours. Everything needs to be done in the walls as the floors are all tiled and solid underneath.

Less than a week later and things were starting to take shape.

The order from Leroy Merlin, however, appeared to be stuck in a warehouse in Palermo. We tried going into Leroy Merlin to chase up the order, but they were unable or unwilling to help us. So we enlisted the help of Dominick to call the Leroy Merlin customer services phone number and chase up our order. They took my number and promised to call when they could give a delivery date and time. They were true to their word and the order turned up on 30 September (the last day of the delivery window on the original order).

Things slowed down once the job needed the co-ordinated activities of builder, plumber, electrician and painter. But by 10 October we had a bathroom close enough to completion for Fenella to try out the shower. Sadly, the water wasn’t mixing properly and would only come out scalding or freezing. After some investigation, it turned out that the hot and cold feeds were the wrong way round (cock up of builder / plumber). Frustratingly, the plumber caught COVID-19 so we had to wait for his recovery before we could have a properly functioning bathroom.

This Saturday, Michele and the plumber came to put things right.

Pretty much the finished article.

While we had Michele around, we asked him to help rehang some hooks. Martin had hung them in the guest room and they had been fine during Fiona’s and Rowan’s use of that room. Then suddenly they just fell off the wall. When Michele saw the rawl plugs I had used, he just laughed. He said you need a much longer screw and rawl plug in these old stone walls. The picture below illustrates the point quite clearly.

New garden fence

Olives and olive oil

Dominick contacted us to let us know his olives were being picked and to invite us to see what was going on and join in. He had nets on the ground to catch the olives and a couple of guys doing the bulk of the picking. One was picking from the lower branches by hand, the other was using a pair of battery powered vibrating hands on a long pole to shake the olives from the higher branches. We joined in picking by hand from the lower branches. It was quite fun and satisfying to see one of the baskets start to fill up. Unfortunately, Dominick had COVID-19 and needed to keep away from us.

We picked olives until lunch time and then popped over the road to Il Giardinetto for a pranzo di lavoro. Eating outside in mid-October – not bad.

All round the village, nets are laid out for the olive harvest.

The next day, Dominick called up to ask if we could help deliver his olives to the frantoio (olive press) and collect the oil once it had been processed. Of course we agreed and made a date for the next day.

We delivered the olives to the frantoio in the morning. This involved loading up the car, driving over to the frantoio and tipping the olives into their much larger containers. These were then weighed and queued up for loading into the crusher. If you exceed a minimum weight, they will separate out your olives from other batches and you can be sure the oil you collect came from your own olives. Dominick had plenty – more than 450 kg. The frantoio was a hive of activity with loads of people waiting to collect their oil.

In the afternoon, we went back to collect the oil. We also bought some empty bottles so we could take some of Dominick’s oil home later.

We collected 58kg of oil and took it back to Dominick’s for a taste and to fill our bottles. The freshly pressed oil has an extraordinary colour and taste, both of which settle down to what we consider normal over the course of about two weeks.

Disturbing news

Carole got in touch as Michele had spoken to her about some concerns he had about our geometra. The suggestion was that he overcharges foreign clients, is incompetent and takes a cut from the contractors (so they need to charge a higher price). He felt he would not get the work as he was not prepared to pay the “fee” and that we should change geometra ASAP.

A fair bit of to and fro ensued and we came to the conclusion that the bad things Michele had heard related to Andrea who showed him around and not to Gino. We assured Michele that he should quote (with no fee) and we would decide. Also that we expected to pay our contractors direct (not through our geometra). We want Michele to have a fair shot at getting the job as we like him and his work.

Still, we decided that we need to be a little cautious over the quotes we receive.

Site visit with contractors

Andrea came to the house with a potential contractor and we asked Michele Gigli (working on our 2nd floor bathroom) to also attend. There was no documentation to speak of and the visit seemed to just consist of Andrea walking them through the house and giving a verbal overview of the proposed works.

Andrea seemed quite impressed by Michele’s work in progress (as are we).